I think it is partly also because many people do not give constructive criticism? Saying something will fail is one thing, saying it over and over in a non-constructive way is another. More helpful to be would be, ‘I think this will fail, but here are possible ideas on how to solve some problems related to that.’, you know?
So much of tumblr is not constructive and I think it just frustrates people after awhile.
Not every problem can be solved. The two fundamental problems with this project are a) There’s just not a big enough customer base for it in the proposed location (Denver, Colorado). b) Otherkin eat at normal human restaurants and really, as a community, have no need or desire for themed restaurants that cater to them. Changing venues may help the first, somewhat, but you’d be hard pressed to find a city with an otherkin population large enough to support a business like a restaurant which needs enough customers *every day* to turn a profit. Even Seattle, Washington with its comparatively huge otherkin, vampire, and therian population probably couldn’t support a restaurant that catered to them. As for the latter, the best way to address it would be in advance: doing market studies of the proposed target audience (otherkin), and developing a real plan for marketing it to a wider audience if possible. Just to do the former, lyssa is going to have to reach out to the wider otherkin and therian communities and not just rely on the 30 or so interested people here on tumblr.
I would seriously appreciate it if you quit shitting all over my dream to open this restaurant. I know it's going to take some serious time, money, and effort to get going, and I don't need people like you telling me it isn't going to work. I get that you aren't interested, but throwing things I already know about and am preparing for is just being a flat out dick head. So please stop.
I posted this before, but I think maybe it’s a quote you would benefit from seeing: “A dream is just a dream. A goal is a dream with a plan and a deadline.” -Harvey MacKay
It’s great that you have a dream, but it’s one that there is literally no way of achieving in Denver, CO. There is not a big enough customer base of otherkin in that city to support a kin-themed restaurant. And there’s no reason non-kin would really pick a kin-themed restaurant over any other restaurant. Even in cities with much larger otherkin populations, you’d be very hard pressed to get enough customers to support a business like that. Because we eat at regular restaurants, and really have no need or desire - as a community - for an otherkin themed restaurant.
If you’re genuinely serious about this, you should know (or your business classes will eventually teach you) that you have to measure the interest in an idea within your target audience. So far, you have a handful of people here on tumblr who are interested. You have another handful here, and on werelist, telling you why it’s a bad idea. And you have the vast majority of the otherkin community on lists, forums, LJ/DW communities, IRC, etc who you haven’t presented it to yet. Get out there, talk to people, and find out how much real interest there is in this idea. I’m guessing that you’ll have less than 100 people interested, total. And most of them not anywhere near Denver. Even if they travel to eat at it, they’re never going to be regulars.
I’m telling you this based on 13 years experience in the otherkin community. I’m telling you this to try to help prevent you from going into massive debt trying to start a business that will, as it’s been presented, absolutely 100% fail. I’m telling you this as someone who has worked in a restaurant, first as a cook and then as a manager, and who knows a lot of what is involved. And how easy it is for even established chains to fail.
If you’re not interested in hearing input and advice, fine. But believe it or not, I’m actually trying to HELP YOU, asshole.
Right, because this whole thing is just going to pop up in a year…. No. It takes months and probably a few years of just planning to even get the money issue taken care of. I know the steps that need to be taken, I am not some dumb ass who thinks this can happen over night. NO SHIT IT NEEDS A LARGE CUSTOMER BASE. NO SHIT IT TAKES MONEY. NO FUCKING SHIT I DON’T HAVE ANY SET PLANS RIGHT NOW. ANYTHING ELSE, ASSHOLE?
Well, yes, actually: I’m betting you have no experience running a business nor managing a restaurant. As such, it’s going to be very difficult to get any kind of financial support for this venture, either from banks or from serious investors.
Since it’s going to be placed in a city of millions, and several said they’d be willing to travel to eat there, I’d say there will be enough. And it’s NOT STRICTLY FOR KIN it’s NOT A VIP CLUB.
I’m sure I’ll just be told to fuck off again, but a) Denver, CO has a population of 600,158. Slightly over half a million. Not “a city of millions”. b) The Colorado Kin list has just 58 members. c) The Otherkin.net Otherkin Directory lists 9 otherkin in Colorado. d) The Denver, CO otherkin and therian meetup averaged 6 participants at its only two meetups, and has no future meetups planned at this time. e) You have yet to articulate any real plan for making this restaurant appeal to humans, which it will obviously need to do both to be considered for a business loan and to get a large enough customer base to survive.
“Don’t open this restaurant because it will look bad for otherkin/lump otherkin and furries together and that’s offensive/won’t work at all and you’ll lose a ton of money/no one will get it/it’s a stupid idea/it’s a good intention, but a bad idea to try and pull off.”
Good thing I jump like a fucking deer. I’ll soar over this hurdle like the fucking flying creature I am!
I got enough people telling me I can do this to out weight the people who say I can’t.
Add me to the list of those who say you probably can’t. All of the concerns that have been brought up, here and on Werelist, are valid ones. And so far they’ve largely been brushed off.
I also think if you had more contact with the larger otherkin and therian communities you’d see that it’s really not an idea that’s either wanted or needed. Existing restaurants are pretty kin friendly - there are a lot of kin meet-ups held in them. And most of the things that are touted as “otherkin food” are actually various things that humans eat. Blood sausage? Thousands of humans who eat it for every vampire that has even tried it. Steak tartare? Hundreds of humans who have eaten it for every therian who has even tried it.
Also, humans aren’t stupid. ”Kin cuisine” and waiters/waitresses dressed up as kintypes? People, including the news media, would put that together much more easily than you seem to think they would. And it would paint the community in a negative light, as others have said. But, honestly, I don’t think that’s really a concern because I really doubt you’ll ever get that far. The initial monetary investment is enormous on starting a restaurant, much more than I think you realize, and the chances of a bank giving a business loan for such an incredibly niche establishment? “Eating like an animal”, the proposed method of marketing it to humans, is likely only to appeal to a certain segment of society. Probably the ones already involved in things like the paleo diet. I really just don’t see it even getting off the ground.
Areiyana: “also, i’m putting it out there (again, again, again) that i am otherkin and i do in fact believe otherkin are oppressed, and the oppression of otherkin is a form of speciesism among other things […]”
Kavitiya: “i do think that otherkin are oppressed, and that otherkin hate and erasure is a form of systemic violent oppression. i think that non-otherkin humans have privilege over otherkin and that acts in really horrible ways.”
Swanblood: ”I think that if we were more visible, we definitely would be a target for oppression”
Also, when Swanblood makes statements like “If someone can’t control barking at work, then, it’s definitely something that could cause a problem for them, and I hope that they have the money, the ability, and the resources to work on it so that they can keep their job in this ableist society […]” it strongly implies that otherkin are being oppressed by a society that is simply prejudiced, whether she intends it that way or not.
This is a quick sampling, but the attitude is by no means limited to the individuals I’ve cited. It’s pervasive in the tumblr otherkin community. And I say that as someone who’s been part of the wider otherkin community for 13 years. There is a very clear difference in attitude between tumblr-era otherkin and older otherkin. And a lot of it does come down to cries of oppression, ableism, privilege, etc. I think the intersection of tumblr otherkin with the tumblr-style social justice movement has done terrible things to the otherkin community here.
About differences between older and newer participants in the therian community, how therians differ from each other, about what needs therians have.
I recommend therians here on tumblr to join Werelist. I have always considered it one of the best therian websites out there. The style and atmosphere is very different from tumblr, but I also feel that many ‘kin here on tumblr would need to see the other parts of the community.
Currently I’m being told by multiple participants in the discussion that it is not, in fact, about older and newer participants in the community and that it is actually about werelist specifically and about “quite a few therians from all ranges of experience and age not feeling comfortable with the current feel of werelist (And some surrounded, similar places) and wanting to call back to the general feel of the older one, while doing so constructively and going forward with lessons the newer werelist has done well too.”
Also, for anyone who’s interested in reading anyway, the link to the specific thread is here. Yes, you will have to make an account first to read it.
1. For all intents and purposes, this body is participated in by a group. This group has an organized means of operation and will continue in whichever way is best for the group. This is to be measured by emotional, mental, and physical health of all members incorporated in said group.
2. We agree that our ongoing intent is to function at or beyond the level of any other average individual in the society around us, being aware of our own needs and requirements and taking our own action to fulfill them without requiring external government. As long as we follow this agreement, we can be counted upon to be aware of our own state of beings and to be interested in our interactions with society. Until we prove ourselves to be incapable of maintaining our basic physical needs, we are to assumed to be as capable as any other physical body out there.
3. If we cannot restrain an individual’s behavior, we must still bear the results of said behavior and address it if it has been decided to be a problem. We agree that the group will take the consequences of the group. It is up to the group to govern and accept the consequences of the group’s behavior though there may be individual action that was not representative of the whole.
4. As long as we perform at a functional level, it is our right to decide when and where we require external assistance. We agree that it is the responsibility of the group to remain functional. If, at any time, the group is not on a balanced keel, it is up to us to take action to repair this.
5. We agree that the group is expected to have the necessary checks and balances to maintain a level of functionality and well-being. We are expected to know when and how to manage the needs and desires of the group’s members. We do not need to seek treatment for the existence of those we may not like, but we agree to do so if their actions cannot be maintained and watched over by the group.
6. As long as this agreement is carried by this group, we will hold not only those of us we know of to it, but also those we do not. All members of this group can and will be held to this declaration’s intent if they are to interact with matters externally and of the whole. If at any time, we undergo a dramatic enough shift to warrant a redecision of keeping to this agreement, it is our duty to declare that the affirmation is no longer applicable and to reestimate said agreement and restate if necessary. If enough of the group does not agree to the standard, it must be canceled.
7. As long as we participate in the external world, we will remember to respect other people for how they present themselves to us, regardless of if they are singlet or plural to whichever degree. We will not measure ourselves against other people in terms of rankings of superiority therein. We will measure them upon the grounds of how they interact with us and should be able to expect the same courtesy from them.
8. Until that time, we declare that we can be counted on to operate with the goal of being a functional member of society in mind and should be given the proper status therein, unrestricted by the nature of our essential state. Those who interact with us can expect that we operate with these standards in play and will willingly repair problems if they arise. We will take our consequences for the group and will behave accordingly.
Hannah:there should be like an eharmony site for otherkin peopel
Bone:LOL OMG YES
Hannah:thatd be intresting
Bone:i'd be like on my profile
lol bird lookin for another bird plz message back
Hannah:hahaha. "i like long flights across the beach"
Hannah:"and shitting on peoples heads"
Bone:loves going for walks in the parks and romantic dinner dates by old peoples benches with breadcrumbs
Older otherkin:Dear gods no. Pick a forum, pick a mailing list, find a meetup group, jump on IRC channels, but for all that is holy not otherkindating.com or the older otherkin.org. Please no. Here, have better options: http://dreamhart.org/links/ and http://anotherwiki.dreamhart.org list resources and http://dreamhart.org/2012/01/a-revised-otherkin-faq/ reviews some of them and offers suggestions for finding/creating otherkin meetups in your area.
Thank you so much for the link to the STL Yahoo 'Kin group, I really needed that.
You’re welcome. :) I’m trying to promote more awareness, here on tumblr, of all the non-tumblr otherkin resources. I know otherkin.net isn’t really doing a great job in that regard anymore, which is why I’ve tried to take up some of that role with AnOtherWiki and Dreamhart.org’s own link directory. And I know there’s still a lot of work to be done…
Not really related, but I kind of wish everyone would stop having “kinfeels”, “whalefeels”, “machinefeels” etc… they’re “feelings” or “experiences”, period. The *feels term annoys me. It’s not like humans talk about having “humanfeels”, it’s not something we really needed to differentiate.
Shifting is something you can learn to control, and anybody can learn to do it. Sometimes it takes longer than other times, and it can be an uphill battle, but if you have this sudden urge to freak out in math class and growl, and run outside and away from school, pause for a minute, and think about being human.
Get a piece of paper out, do a little doodling. Write a story. Get your energy out another way, and slowly you’ll come back to normal.
I also gathered around me people who I really respected and cared for, and while I was overloading myself with the worries of helping out everyone and giving advice, I came across a moron in a chat room one night who was deluding himself with stories that I knew flat out weren’t true.
Why did I know they weren’t true?
Because I know stuff from my own personal experience and it just doesn’t work the way he was talking. So I called him on the bullshit, and I called him on his shifting lies, and I proved to him what I was saying, and called in a couple of friends to help me out, and we sat there and talked and he figured something out.
I didn’t spoon feed it to him, I just slashed away the shit from his little protected mind and he said “thanks”, and then he asked us where we met.
The closest one I know of to you, currently, is probably mine in Harrisburg. But it’d be ridiculously far for you to come, and I don’t know of anyone coming from your area that could offer a ride.
I’d suggest asking on the Tri-State Otherkin mailing list (NY, NJ, CT) if there’s anything more local. Possibly also the Boston Otherkin Gathers mailing list, and the Maine Vampyres and Otherkin list too, since they may be aware of gathers or meetups in CT. If there’s really nothing in your area, you may also be able to use these lists to start one yourself - just pick a location you can get to, and invite folks. Restaurants or public parks make good choices.
What area are you in? There might be one within walking or public transportation distance, and not all of them charge fees. I’m running one in late July in the Harrisburg, PA area that can easily be reached via public transport and the only charge is $20 for food for the weekend. Others meet at restaurants, and there’s no real obligation to join everyone who is eating. You can just get a soda or something. There are even some that meet in public parks. You also might be able to find people in the same area willing to give you a ride.
i’m not joking i live on an acre and a half with woods and a pond and stream plz come ok?
WE KIN SHOULD HAVE A MEET UP SOMEDAY
Why wait for “someday”? We have lots, already scheduled, around the US and a couple in the UK. A full list of all the ones I know about is available on the main page of AnOtherWiki, and anyone can add more. If you need help adding yours, don’t hesitate to ask. :)
“Stereotypes exist for a reason. There are a great many reasons out there, too. I identify as otherkin, in fact I would fall into both the therianthrope and otherkin categories. Going back to the example quoted in the article, on Lupines and Relationships, well…I had to have a good chuckle on this one. And people wonder why most otherkin allegedly construct their entire spiritual basis around identity. It’s so easy to blame relationship failures and poor social skills on, say, being a wolf. As someone who identifies as a wolf, I can’t say I’ve had the problems that the person above claims to have. One also must consider, for example, the lack of knowledge this person seems to have on anatomy and animal psychology. Wolves are deeply social beings, and of all the animals to form a symbiotic relationship with humans, it would be the dog—the direct descendant of the wolf (and, many scientists believe, a subspecies of c. lupus). There is also the obvious sense enough to seek out a significant-other who shares similar beliefs and values as oneself, which makes the journey easier. But that’s the mark of proper social skills.”—Solo, “Vocal Majorities, Stereotyping, and Personal Thoughts”
“Okay, I realize I might be sounding like an asshole here to some people (correction: I AM an asshole, but I at least try to be reasonable on occasion), but my point is that coming to the conclusion that you are a therianthrope or an otherkin of any species or variety requires far more in-depth “soul-searching” and homework than simple meditation or reading articles and forums on the internet. A series of feel-good dreams and meditations where you see yourself prancing around as some glamorous animal doesn’t make you one. Image and feel alone doesn’t always make you what you think you are—the brain is a very complex and cunning device capable of a fair amount of trickery, especially if there is enough emotion and want behind the scenes. And hey, even if you do turn out to be something, say, therianthropic, would you always want your genetic animal-kin (or any animals in general really) to recognize you as such? Furthermore, are the glamorous good ole’ days of frolicking in the woods and howling under the full moon (yeah, right) something you really want to go back to? Now maybe I’ve grown a touch too, ah, domesticated here, but I personally rather enjoy my central heating and air conditioning, and food that doesn’t kick or bite back.”—Solo, “Psychology, Newage Bullcrap, and Anthropomorphics”
“An excellent set of questions for anyone is “Are you better off now that you know about your other identity? Has it helped or hindered your life, balance, health and well-being?” For myself, I can say that it’s been a great thing for health, balance, and self-confidence. And ultimately it’s a question we only answer to our own satisfaction.”—Syleniel, “Questioning Sanity”
“I remember when I needed the other darkfae around me for stability and functionality, and that was a focus of the group, among other things. We worked to get ourselves balanced in our new identities, so we could function in this life! Ya, we whined about “going home” just as much as the next person, but that’s wasn’t where we stopped. It was about this life, today, right now! It was about blending our aspects into a smooth whole that was able to walk around in daily life, do daily functions, and succeed while retaining our otherkin selves. It was about life.”—Eradea, “The Otherkin Problem”
They did not, however, blindly accept me without question simply because I said so. They challenged me to think about what I felt, to become aware, to experience myself. They asked me hard questions: Why do you think you are Sidhe? What makes you believe you are something other than human in spirit, and not just using it as an excuse to feel superior?
Why indeed. Naturally I threw the kind of little hissy tempertantrums that many are so very familiar with these days - how dare you question my beliefs, you’re so insensitive, I’m trying to cope with what I am and you just want to tear me down, my truth is my truth for me, yada yada. And then one day one of my friends said to me, “Look, asshole, I’m not trying to tell you I don’t believe. I’m trying to make you think about why you believe, because if you are what you believe you are then you have a whole new perspective to work with and don’t you think you’ll work with it better if you understand it from the inside out?”
“Being faeborn does not mean retreating to past lives as an easy escape from social discomfort or emotional or psychological issues; it does not mean spending this life in wasteful reminiscing for better lives; it does not mean finding an excuse to drop out of this life or to act in self-destructive ways. It means rediscovering and living as who you really are at your core, as a whole person, in the interest of personal and spiritual growth and true fulfillment in this life.”—Skyling, “What it Really Means to be Faeborn”
“While an uneducated skeptic may still call you crazy or nuts, most likely, the worst that a psychologist could say is that you’re idiosyncratic; and the worst an educated skeptic could call you is ‘fantasy-prone.’ This label indicates that you believe in fantasies that are not widely accepted. ‘Fantasy’ beliefs are quite common; after all, they include believing in a god, in reincarnation, in the existence of a soul, in the power of communion or baptism, in Jesus, in UFO’s or aliens, in ESP, and many other beliefs held by millions of people. Belief in being fae-born is uncommon enough to mark you as having a ‘fantasy-prone’ tendency. All it means is that you may tend to believe in things that are not (yet) logically or scientifically provable. It doesn’t mean you have any sort of mental disorder or illness.”—
“This has a lot to do with why I’m so bitchy about the “spoonfeeding” and why I see it as pointless at best and dangerous at worst. What is going to happen to people who’ve fallen into the whole coddle-the-newbie trip when the coddler gets bored with the game, and hasn’t helped anyone do the real work of developing their own inner framework? It’s very easy to criticize me for my own critical comments about the spoonfeeders, but perhaps placed into this overall context you can at least understand my concern. I didn’t *have* anyone to coddle me when I Awakened, I was alone out there. But I worked my ass off to Become.”—Tiernan, “New Age vs Otherkin Community”
I was kind of confused by what it was trying to say. All they really said was the word “addiction,” which in itself is problematic as fuuuuck. So I didn’t really know if it was an age identity or a fetish or what… but I agree. It has nothing to do with her being transgender… and now I know that I misused the term Otherkin because I’m still learning. Sigh! ;-P
No worries. If you need a better understanding of the term otherkin, I’d recommend checking the otherkin FAQ on my website (which also includes links to other people’s FAQs and essays with their own descriptions of what it means):
Do what I do: before hitting post, select the whole thing and Ctrl+C, just in case. Then if it messes up, you just paste it back in.
I have a plugin for my browser that is supposed to save the contents of text boxes in case of browser crash, sort of an autosave. It also works if you move off of the page by accident and have to go back. But apparently tumblr does something differently, because it doesn’t work with it. At all. I do try to use the Ctrl+C method whenever I remember it, but sometimes especially after I finish typing up a long post, I just hit post without thinking.
I mostly figure their claims were false, but do I doubt that some people on the tag may have let their anger get the better of them and sent angry posts? No I don’t.
Angry? Certainly. Threatening? That’s a different level of claim. One that I see no reason for us to accept unquestioningly from someone who has demonstrated a willingness to lie about their time in the community and about the common reaction of the community to people leaving it.
If any actual threats were made, which I doubt, it would be a simple matter for them to take it up with tumblr and have the threatening users banned for violating the terms of service. Even for anon comments, since tumblr keeps IP records even if users can’t see them. Short of a bunch of otherkin accounts suddenly getting banned for making such threats, I suggest we treat this claim with skepticism.
Honestly, this is one reason I keep reblogging and posting. Because if the tag just gets filled up with trolls and people mocking, that’s fine for us… but, what about the people who search the tag to find knowledge about otherkin, and can’t tell the difference?
No. Responding to trolls just encourages them. It doesn’t help educate outsiders because they can’t actually tell which of us are the trolls and which are legitimate. They just end up seeing two factions, and we’re lending the troll faction legitimacy by treating their posts seriously.
We’re driving up the trolls reblog/like count, we’re constantly talking about them and their views rather than about ourselves and our views/experiences, and we’re making more and more of the tag focus on them rather than on us. By reblogging trolls, even to “counter” their misinformation, you’re helping them take over the tag.
And even if you let every person in creation know that x-particular-poster is a troll, they’ll be back in two weeks with a new name and a new story if they see they can get a rise like that out of you. And they’ll probably bring friends, because you’ve proven that you’re an awfully juicy target.
If you want to help people tell the difference between trolls and otherkin? Make your own posts, that don’t refer to the trolls in any way. Be living counterexamples.
And if some poor schmuck ever does get fooled into thinking a troll was a real otherkin, and cites the troll’s post as evidence of something negative about the community? Gently correct them at that time. But don’t ever engage with the troll themselves or treat their post as in any way valid.
Don’t feed the trolls. It’s time tested as the only method for actually dealing with them, and it’s the only way we’re actually going to reclaim the tag from them.
I keep writing replies that are gone when I hit post, turning back into a straight reblog. And it’s not just the ones where I forget to mark it as reblog as text, either. This is getting really, really annoying. I just lost a long post twice that way…
I don’t know a lot about Otherkin, but this example seems to be showing Riley as a person who identifies as a baby as a coping mechanism for harsh reality.
This actually has nothing to do with otherkin, or with Riley being transgendered. She is engaged in a fetish called infantilism. She does not “identify” as a baby, or think she is spiritually or psychologically a baby, she just does it because she derives comfort and enjoyment from it.
Realized I left one more thing out in my guide to troll spotting: consider their friends. People generally surround themselves with people who are like them or whom they admire. If someone surrounds themselves with trolls? Chances are they are a troll themselves. If someone frequently likes troll posts? Chances are they are a troll themselvs. If someone frequently reblogs troll posts without comment, or with approving comments? Chances are they are a troll themselves. Fairly common sense, but then I think most of what I’ve posted about trolls is.
Step One: Consider their username. It’s often a pun, a reference to something fictional/RPGish, or just out and out insulting.
Step Two: Read their posts. Read, not skim. Trolls often like to hide little lines in the midst of longer texts that make the fact they are trolling very, very apparent. For melted-snowflake, the clear give-away line was:
“You’re a good being, Snowflake,” a werewolf said, “if only I had someone like you when I was driven from my village for being a “monster”“
For Tireanavi, the famous Navi-kin troll, there were a number of give-away lines. The two most blatant were:
My partner did put her foot down at the dressing our child in blue clothes and turning down the heating so that their skin has a light blue tinge, however, and on reflection I agree that this was not a good idea.
By “higher being" I mean that my true form is taller than humans by a considerable amount, actually.
Trolls include lines like this for a number of reasons, ranging from a simple self-congratulatory effort to prove how clever they are and how dumb their targets are to fall for it to marking the post as a troll post for other trolls who might read it. The more blatant one can be with such lines while still getting a large response, the more likely their peers are to credit them with an “epic troll”.
Step Three: Read their posts again. Their username and the presence of give-away lines have probably given you a good idea of whether or not they’re a troll, now it’s time to really confirm things. Trolls don’t debate. They pontificate. They rarely cite sources, instead citing “common knowledge”/”common sense”, experience in the community themselves, or people they have talked with in the community. With their experiences, or the experiences of the people they supposedly talked with, differing wildly from the average.
People trolling the pagan community frequently cite former pagans who claim that it’s devil worship and demonolatry, or pretend to be former pagans themselves. People trolling the gay community frequently cite gays (often “former” gays) they have talked to who claim that being gay is a choice, or even claim that they personally could have chosen to be gay but didn’t.
Otherkin trolls are even more creative. They claim to be unusual kintypes, often ones they believe sound ridiculous. They claim to be ex-otherkin fairly frequently, or to have gone through a stage like being otherkin when they were young but later grew out of it. Sometimes they claim to be making otherkin resources, but instead post blatant lies. Tassadar/Iniach’s fake memorial page for Eyovah is a very good example of this. And there are probably more examples that I’m not thinking of off the top of my head. But examining what they claim, and how they support (or fail to support) it is always a very good way to confirm if someone is or is not trolling. Especially if they start playing word games to avoid admitting either error or trolling, as in Tirea’s “higher being” comment.
Once you spot a troll? Stop engaging. Don’t feed into it, and they will go away. Always. Even the most persistent troll that the community had eventually gave up when he was simply repeatedly banned from every list every time he popped up with no further response.
First, don’t just block the main troll posting to a tag. Take the time to see who’s liked and reblogged their trolling comment with supportive comments, and block those accounts too. Chances are, you’ll block some of the trolls friends and/or morph accounts which would also troll the tag.
Second, take a look at anyone new who likes your posts or follows your blog. Read through their posts, especially any made in the tag. If they seem trollish, block them preemptively. Not everyone who “likes” your blog is doing it for friendly reasons, sometimes they’re gathering targets.
Finally, for the love of the gods, apply some critical thinking. Don’t accept claims, especially unusual claims, without questioning. Not everyone who claims to be otherkin is and even being otherkin does not automatically make you a good/honest person.
The nature of someone’s claims, from their stated kintype to the things they claim about their experience of the community, can be a sign of someone trolling or roleplaying rather than someone who is genuinely otherkin. They can also be the sign of someone who is genuinely otherkin but is attempting to manipulate others. Keep your eyes open, and if you see too many warning signs then don’t be afraid to block them. Roleplayers, trolls, and manipulative otherkin are all just about as damaging to the community.
If you’d like some more general safety tips and information for the community, I highly recommend the following links:
From genuine posters, or from other trolls and/or their own morph accounts?
And yes they may be lying but that doesn’t mean the message (Otherkin need to be fixed) is a lie.
Yes, actually, it does. Starting from a faulty premise, that they are speaking from experience about what it means to be otherkin when they are not, does preclude them from knowing whether or not otherkin need to be fixed.
They’re putting content out there, and how we respond is by putting out information of our own, explaining for ourselves what this is.
They’re trolling. Trolling is not “content”. Responding to it, at all, even to “put out information” is simply going to feed it. You’d be better to write your own posts about being otherkin which do not mention the troll or their posts at all. Alternative content would still be presented, and it would not feed into the trolling.
Of course I’m not saying all of this should be directed at melted-snowflake directly, or any of it, but I mean just more talking about it. I don’t block trolls for that reason. I want to see what the others are saying.
Generally, what trolls are saying isn’t really worth knowing. They’re not making valid criticisms, they’re not debating with you, they are literally just trying to get a rise and make you look bad. That’s their purpose. That’s why they won’t respond to valid questions, or distort responses, and play elaborate word games rather than addressing actual points. This is the nature of trolling.
Finally, I have no problem melted snowflake has received hatemail. That is a thing that happens and I can definitely believe there are beings around who would send such things.
And that’s the point. It’s a plausible-sounding claim that we have no way of actually verifying, so because it *sounds* plausible the community is convicted of it and people rushing to tell their fellow otherkin to stop doing this reinforces the idea that it was really done. When all we know is that it was alleged. By someone who also claims to be receiving a multitude of anonymous asks from ex-otherkin who demonstrate similar levels of community knowledge, and a similar writing style, to themselves. Occams Razor: There’s simply no need to posit unnecessary additional entities in the form of real otherkin sending hate mail with actual threats. They’ve demonstrated themselves to be an unreliable source.
TL;DR: Stop sending hate to melted-snowflake. They have different beliefs than you, but that doesn’t mean you can send them threats. It only further enforces the idea that they have in their head that we’re some kind of cult that shuts up dissent, and we do not need something like this going on.
Melted snowflake is a known troll, who has demonstrably lied about how long they have been in the community. Is there any reason we should believe that they are being honest about receiving threats? Especially when they claim to have received the same the last time they left the community? This is not standard - many people have left the community for a variety of reasons over the years, and never received threats for it. The entire blog is an attempt to troll otherkin and make us look bad. This is just one more way of doing that. I’m sure the same anonymous asks will be used to support the threats idea that were used to support the idea that there are a multitude of ex-otherkin they’re in contact with.
Please, everyone, stop talking about melted-snowflake. Stop reblogging melted-snowflake, stop commenting on them, stop criticizing them posts, just ignore them. Use the block button if you have to. I’m getting close to blocking everyone who mentions them from here on out, because it’s never going to go away as long as people keep feeding into it. Do Not Feed The Trolls.
Melted-Snowflake claims that there are people here sending threatening messages to them. Pleas stop. Not only will this give trolls even more of a reason to discredit us, but its rude, unkind and not something any upstanding member of any community should do no matter how much someone pisses us off.
You want people to treat us with respect? You treat them with respect, even if they are acting like a giant ass.
The number of people I’ve seen reblogging MS agreeing with them and condeming our behavior is saddening. If you ever want people to support otherkin and treat us like normal sane people, then BEHAVE LIKE IT.
Stop sending threats and angry posts to their ask box. If you really must ask something do it in a reasonable, levelheaded way.
If you can’t respond without anger the DON’T RESPOND AT ALL!
Stop acting like children.
Melted-Snowflake Is. A. Troll. There is no reason to believe their claims to have received threatening messages in the present any more than there is to believe their claims to have received threatening messages the last time they left the otherkin community, or indeed the claim that they were ever part of the otherkin community.
They have, demonstrably, lied about how long they were in it — older otherkin communities were never about fighting “otherkin erasure” or about “social justice”, both of which clearly mark them as only knowing about tumblr-era kin. But the tumblr otherkin community is simply too new for anyone to have been in it for years through high-school and into college.
They are lying. Don’t buy into the lies. Any of them. Don’t respond to them, don’t reblog them, don’t criticize them, don’t do anything to contribute attention to them. Do Not Feed The Trolls. At all. Ever.
Seriously, I’m about to start blocking everyone who reblogs or even mentions melted-snowflake or other trolls on the tag, not just the trolls themselves. Just hit the block button and forget about them. That’s all we need to do. They don’t have any power over us. Stop feeding this, and it will go away.
I’ve been lurking within the vampire community since 04 but never bothered joining a forum until 08 or 09 ( didn’t have constant internet access until then)
I’ve been an active member of the otherkin community since May 1, 1999. Things… have changed.
And typically I just ignore trolls on the forums I’m on if they can’t be reasoned with. Otherwise I don’t really care who knows or what people think of it, I’m out on facebook and have dealt with much better trolls then the people here ( someone actually tried to exorcise me over FB messages =/)
Were they quoting Exorcist, or Supernatural at the time? ;-)
For what it’s worth, I would TOTALLY use “coming out of the kennel” haha.
You might not want to, actually. That’s a phrase already in use by another group that would cause unfortunate associations if picked up by therians as well. Coming out of the stables is also out, for the same reason.
Profile Songs That’s right! You may now link to a song to play when visitors view your profile. This is optional, and of course, visitors can stop the song from playing at any time. Change your profile song in your profile editor! (requires flash to play song)
Autoplaying music is never a good idea. We learned this in the 90s on Geocities, Angelfire, and Fortune City webpages with their embedded midis. We’ve relearned it on myspace, and again on tumblr. It’s just never a good idea.
I have noticed this before, people are so quick to attack otherkin for appropriation and say that we are using the words from other communities, but different groups have been using variations on words like “coming out”, “dysphoria”, etc. for many years.
There’s also the simple fact that the GLBT community themselves originally borrowed the term from the coming-out parties held by débutantes.